Hello,
Thank you to everyone who has sent me messsages about this. I have been inundated with helpful suggestions! Before Xmas I hope to send emails to everyone who emailed me to say thanks. I have a couple of slightly more technical questions to do with school water use - can anyone help? I am auditing more than 70 schools for their water use. I am entering their water use onto a spreadsheet, and would like to be able to build some assumptions into the spreadsheet. Does anyone know if it's possible to make assumptions about the following:
*the number of times a single flush toilet is likely to be used, on average, per student per day *the number of times a DUAL flush toilet is ikely to be used, on average, per student per day *the average water use per flush. In the case of a dual flush toilet, can you reckon on an average number of litres used? I know there are different sized systems, like an 8/4 litre system, and a 6/3. *the average number of minutes each student would probably use a toilet tap per day *the average number of minutes each student would probably use a CLASSROOM OR LABORATORY tap per day *the average number of minutes each student would probably use a DRINKING FOUNTAIN per day.
I imagine it may not be possible to make assumptions about these, as there could simply be too much variation from one school to the next. However that would probably involve a lot of use of water meters, and in all of these areas, I am hoping to avoid having to meter each of the 70 schools for each area listed. It simply would not be a cost effective use of my time. I hope you don't mind me asking you this. It just occurred to me I could spend a long time finding these things out, and someone may know of some standard figures.
Thanks again for your help, and have a good holiday!
Jacob Rawls
Water Wise Up Project Manager
EcoMatters Environmental Trust
PO Box 15 215 New Lynn WAITAKERE CITY
09 826 0555 021 308083
More on Water Use in Schools
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You must be young..... That phrase is not new, it was very common in California during the drought of the 1970s.
Thanks & Adios,
CJD --
Carol J. Dollard, P.E., LEED
AP Utility Engineer
[email protected]
(970) 491-0151
(970) 491-6116 FAX
This from today's New Scientist update on the benefits of actually separating out the pee before it enters the sewer. Apparently this is already happening in parts of Sweden. http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19225831.600?DCMP=
NLC-nletter&nsref=mg19225831.600
Liz Baker
Project Coordinator -
Sustainability Ballina Shire Council
T: 02 6686 1284
F: 02 66869514
P.O. Box 450, Ballina NSW 2478
Jacob:
was this little mnemonic phrase something you'd already heard of?
Best wishes,
DouGlas Palenshus
Hi Jacob et al
I am pretty sure the Green Buildings Council of Australia http://www.gbcaus.org/ is currently producing sustainable buildings guidelines for educational premises as part of its Green Star program. They have training programs for accredited professionals that can guide the design of a range of buildings including healthcare facilities, offices and shopping centres. They have technical working groups from across industry assisting with their training programs and they collect a baseline data to assist with their training programs/rating tools. I would give them a ring to see if they can advise you of their baseline assumptions for 'reduced flow to sewer' for educational premises. An example of their rating tool for offices is provided below. Just note that this rating tool is accompanied by a significant amount of supporting literature and training. http://www.gbcaus.org/docs/greenstar/tools/GreenStar_OfficeDesign.xls
Kind regards
Janine Barrow
Strategic Environmental Planner
Level 7, 263 Adelaide Tce PERTH WA 6000
Tel: +61 8 9268 9656
Fax: +61 8 9268 9625
Email: [email protected]
visit our website www.skmconsulting.com
Jacob (and others) -
At our University, I've spent a while trying to model the water requirements of a population of staff and students, so I can tell you what guided assumptions I made. Unlike a school, we have a floating population so you have an advantage in fairly stable staff/student numbers each day. In modelling personal hygiene and toileting patterns, I definitely included differences between male and female and additionally included greater toileting needs for females during one week in every four. I assumed that males would use wash basin only after toilet use, not after urinal use, but one other time per day (for other than hygiene reasons). I assumed that females would use wash basin after every toilet visit. I assumed worst-case facilities - no flow restrictors on taps and standard old single-flush toilets. A summary of assumptions and number follows:
Tap delivery rate 9 litres per minute
Tap opening for hand-washing 50% of max opening (ie 4.5 litres per minute) hand washing time 30 seconds
Toilet flush volume 10 litres
Urinal flush allowance 3 litres
Personal consumption 1.5 litres (including tea/coffee and meal wash-up)
Male Female Personal consumption 1.5 1.5 Urinal 9 -
Toilet 10 60 (75% of time) / 90 (25% of time)
Hand washing 4.5 13.5 (75%) / 27 (25%)
Average daily use 25 86
There's obviously a lot of variability in these figures, such as the size of the toilet cistern, whether you bring in dual-flush and tap flow restrictors etc. But this may be a startign point for you.
Good luck.
regards
Lisha K.
Lisha Kayrooz
Project Coordinator -
Energy & Water Management Facilities
Management Office, James Cook University
Tel: (07) 4781 6535
Mobile: 0438 011 550
E-mail: [email protected]
WARNING THIS POST IS GROSS!
As a woman who's suffered from the disgusting policy "If its brown, flush it down; ... if its yellow, let it mellow" for about 18 years I think it's time to find a better way to conserve water. You see my in-laws are in Los Angeles, which has periodic droughts. My father-in-law simply abandoned flushing urine after the mnemonic phrase was introduced as a conservation mechanism during a drought in the 1980's. As you might be aware, females sit when conducting bodily functions. I personally do not like the splashing that occurs when my urine inevitably comes into contact with the 'mellowing' surface water and splashes back up. Sorry to be graphic, but it must be said! When I encounter 'mellow yellow' I flush before I sit. The net number of flushes end up the same. Also, when my father-in-law or any other male in that house (all of whom are more than six-feet-tall) uses a toilet already containing mellowing urine, some of the mixture will end up splashing out due to the gravity of a three or four foot drop and water presssure - if you get my drift. Their bathroom always smells like a bus station or subway. Or worse - if my well intentioned mother-in-law has installed some perfumy candle to cover the odor! When they visit mine stinks too! I do not appreciate entering the bathroom impregnated with the smell of urine. If you believe this is just an issue of cleanliness may I remind you that keeping surfaces and floors wiped down and sanitized just uses more water/chemicals/wipes, etc. I go through an inordinate amount of those frivolous but convenient Chlorox wipes when they visit - and I'm not ashamed to admit it!!! In a commercial/industrial setting like a school, perhaps you could avoid that problem with toilet seat covers, but that just creates a different type of waste! If we really want to conserve water perhaps it's time to go back to pit toilets - or modern composting toilets. I honestly find the forest service's campground pit/vault toilets less offensive than my in-laws bathroom! I conserve my water elsewhere by changing my landscaping, using low flush toilets or toilet dams, etc. In the case of a school, I realize it would be expensive to re-plumb to pressurized low water toilets, but it would be a better choice. I have no idea - Jacob - how school yards in Australia are laid out. But most American schools (in suburbia at least) sit on several acres of grass. The children only play on about 1/3-1/2 of the area alotted. In the arid West wasting water on large grass school yards is just plain silly. Okay, I'm done with my rant. PS - If you know my mother-in-law don't you dare tell her about this! She'd be mortified.
Ginger Wireman
Community Outreach and Environmental Education
Washington State Dept. of Ecology, Nuclear Waste Program
3100 Port of Benton Bl. Richland, WA 99354
509-372-7935
Ginger--
I believe that you are right when you say we should consider composting toilets, but the technology would have to be much better than it currently is. I had a Clivus Multrum composting toilet in a house my husband and I built in Fraser, Colorado in 1979. We installed it for all the right reasons (saving water, saving money, smaller leach field, save the environment) and we were young and very eco-groovy organic. The reality was far different. The climate was too cold for it to operate well, fruit flies were a problem, it had a terrible system for treating "greywater," the house smelled earthy and funky if, god forbid, the electricity went out, and the house was not marketable with what most people considered an indoor outhouse. We eventually pulled it out and put in a conventional septic system. If you currently have no access to sanitary facilities and running water, a composting toilet would be a vast improvement. If you live in the "developed" world, going back to a composting toilet would be unacceptable for most people.
Kristin Winn
Public Information Coordinator
Public Works & Utilities City of Grand Junction
250 N. 5th Street Grand Junction, CO 81501
(970) 256-4076
Hi Jacob,
You could also try to email [email protected]; He is involved in a major program to retrofit all government buildings in Queensland (schools will be included in this) including installation of duel flush toilets, waterless urinals and other water smart initiatives. They will have done some research into this, so he might be able to help you, to ascertain how much water they plan to save.
Hope this helps,
Kind regards
Christine Bain
Environmental Protection Agency
Queensland, AUST
Jacob/All:
Whatever those use numbers are, they can undoubtedly be reduced; so let me take this opportunity to share a phrase with some of you who may not heard it. Though from a slow start, we are making gradual progress in changing employees of a large state environmental agency toward practicing the following: "If its brown, flush it down; ... if its yellow, let it mellow." As you might guess, the phrase has particular 'currency' with youth.
Best wishes,
DouGlas Palenshus,
Outreach Coordinator */*
Washington State Department of Ecology
|Northwest Regional Office,
Water Quality Program
Phone: (425) 649-7041