Peak Oil

Doug, Subject: Hydrogen Highway, Hydrogen Economy.

Please send this on to Manda Brookman:

Iceland is taking peak oil very seriously - Google under Iceland Hydrogen Economy. You'll access about ten pages of references, including one by BBC on Icelandic initiatives (www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2208013.stm). Another example is the Hydrogen Highway, which stretches from Whistler, BC (the site of the 2010 Winter Olympics) down to Vancouver Airport and on into Wahington State, There are references to California's Hydrogen Highway also. In Canada and the US it seems to be Provinces and/or States that are taking initiatives. I understand New Zealand is also talking about a Hydrogen Economy. I have not searched for info. from there.

Happy hunting!
Richard Wilson.

www.signsofrecycling.com

I would caution citing NZ as an example of a country 'talking about a hydrogen economy'. I have not seen anything substantive though our National Institute of Water and Atmosphere - http://www.niwascience.co.nz/ncces/cem/2003-04/hydrogen - did ask some questions back in 2003. And of course the key issue is what energy source is going to be used to create the hydrogen fuel!! I would also caution about the Swedish pronouncement. I have seen it interpreted in two distinct ways - break its dependence on fossil fuels - end the use of fossil fuels. What the minister said was the former http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/3212/a/51058 - what I see being refered to in the media is that latter - big difference! Still good on Sweden I say for taking the issue more seriously than many other countries.

pete

For Manda in the UK:

Northern Germany (Hamburg region) has begun assembling a network of hydrogen fuel stations and is rolling out a large fleet of hydrogen fuel cell buses over the next 5 years. A good reference: http://www.iphe.net/germany.htm International Partnership for a Hydrogen Highway

In the US also, transit authorities managing bus fleets are the likely early adapters of hydrogen fuel cells, also some universities. See Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority in California, and Penn State University. Regrettably, the US government has decided that hydrogen will be made from natural gas, thereby extending our fossil fuel addiction and the release of carbon into the atmosphere in the process. Sequestration does not seem to be part of the government's plans. (One must wonder how many people in the Bush Administration know what "sequestration" means? I ask this as a serious policy question, not a political statement.) Regarding NG for the hydrogen, the US has made this decision largely because most of the natural gas would be imported from Trinidad and Tobago, which is easy to manipulate in comparison to petrol suppliers Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, etc. I hope that the citizens of T&T know what they are getting into... One word of caution, if I may: the most common type of hydrogen fuel cell requires a catalyst such as platinum or palladium to work properly. The Russian government controls a majority of the world supply for these precious metals through Norilsk Nickel and its associated web of companies, and President Putin is not exactly a generous, cooperative partner at times. Rhetorical question for the UK: When is "peak gas" for North Sea natural gas deposits?

Best wishes for a sustainable energy future,
Vincent O'Grady

Center for Energy and Environmental Policy
University of Delaware
[email protected]

Oh dear!

It appears that many in this group are being drawn in by the Hype of Hydrogen. Hydrogen is not a magic bullet and it is not THE answer to our energy and transport problems. It is likely to play a part in the overall mix of solutions but not necessarily a major part. I have spoken to many people inside the industry who privately admit that it won't live up to it's hype but the research dollars are very nice to have. I would urge everybody who is interested in this subject to do a lot more research and separate the fact from fiction.

Cheers
MOC
0419 307 418

I recently saw the excellent documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?". http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/ The documentary points out the the hydrogen car movement loves hydrogen because it perpetuates the need to travel to a "filling station" to "fill up" your car with fuel. Electric cars negate the need for all that infrastructure. I can only imagine how powerful are the business forces that want to keep the world dependent on the need to "fuel your car at a filling station" (no matter what the fuel is. I highly recommend this documentary to all who want to have a better understanding of the forces for "minimal change" at work in our world. We truly need a transformation. In order for that to happen (in my humble opinion) we must educate and (peacefully) mobilize the public at large.

Steve

Michael O'connell's warning about the "Hype of Hydrogen," reminded me of a recent article in Forbes Magazine. This publication is targeted at investors and has a decidedly conservative slant. The article analyzed the business elements of the production of hydrogen as fuel for cars as a business. The article focused on how current energy resource companies are planning to extract hydrogen from natural gas, oil or coal feedstocks. As I read the article it became clear that the hydrogen production processes it described would do nothing to avert the problems caused by extracting those fuels from the ground, and also that the methods used to split out the hydrogen from those feedstocks would create problems of harmful pollutant by products and would themselves consume considerable energy. Under the right conditions, they would however keep the profits flowing for the drilling and mining companies.

I did a recent Google search on biologic(al) hydrogen sources, and found that some anaerobic bacteria can produce hydrogen, and they are manipulating them to be oxygen tolerant, which they also produce, and which shuts them down.This seems like a sustainable way to go. But I have to agree electric transport is preferable. I also believe the Personal Transport Conveyance is a temporary pimple in history.

A & K Berggren

11 South St.
Claremont, NH, 03743
603-543-3691

That is a good point. In a related topic, biofuels are also as inefficient, since they need more fuel to be generated than that they will eventually produce (picking up the product with a truck, taking it to the plant, processing it, etc). The eventual turnout will come from subsidies which are given to biofuel producers. Of course, it's a big business, but sustainable? I doubt it.

Carlos F. Pardo

Coordinador de Proyecto GTZ
Proyecto de Transporte Sostenible (SUTP, SUTP-LAC)
Cl 125bis # 41-28 of 404
Bogot D.C., Colombia
Tel: +57 (1) 215 7812
Fax: +57 (1) 236 2309
Mobile: +57 (3) 15 296 0662
e-mail: [email protected]
Pgina: www.sutp.org